Woo Hoo moment

[Lynn-Cubs]

After giving up canoeing after a stupid incident which knocked my confidence, I've been back canoeing with my Scouts tonight. We had a great night although I'm still more nervous than I should be, partially as the water is disgusting at the moment due to lack of rain.

Now I need to get into a swimming pool and learn to roll, something never did when I was canoeing ... erm 20 yrs ago. And my wetsuit still fits!

Off to bed now, whether I'll be able to walk in the morning or not I don't know, no foot rest in the boat and I eventually had to give up as I'd lost the feeling in my legs.

Woo Hoo!

[marcush]

Do you mean kayak? as didn't think you could role a canoe?

[mattcollins171]

well you can but its generally only half a roll

[big chris]

Originally Posted by marcush

Do you mean kayak? as didn't think you could role a canoe?

maaaaaaaaaaaaan...


and you moan about merryweather!

just you wait...

[marcush]

Originally Posted by big chris

maaaaaaaaaaaaan...


and you moan about merryweather!

just you wait...

haha. I got moaned at for calling a kayak a canoe recently by someone who is kayak crazy.

[Bushfella]

Actually, you can roll a canoe, I've seen it done, both in a fully open canoe and one kitted out for white water.

The first is a joke as the boat fills with water and is unpaddleable. The second is essentially a canoe filled with buoyancy and foam with the paddler using leg braces.

Lynn, your description of your experience sounds very similar to mine when I got back into a kayak after a 20 year break following a bad experience. I'm now an L3 Coach (bit sometimes still a little nervous). So keep at it.

[gregharewood]

Originally Posted by marcush

Do you mean kayak? as didn't think you could role a canoe?

Yeah sometime in the last 20 years since I was last canoeing in a kayak, people have started preferring American usage round here.

I was taught in no uncertain terms that there were two types of canoe - open/canadian, and kayak. Not only was canoe a the generic term, but the word kayak was not to be conjugated as it was ugly. So you went canoeing in a kayak. You didn't go kayaking. I stick with this cos I like being old :-)

So, of course she means a kayak. And what she said was perfectly correct, you impertinent young whippersnapper

I saw someone roll a Canadian without bouyancy just last week. Yeah, it came full of water, but it was impressive that he could do it!!


So... learning to roll a kayak....

I had some great and dedicated help with this, and I did it consistently for the first time on Wednesday. 6 out of 6.

FWIW, there are a lot people with a lot of advice about rolling. I don't know if it reflects what different people found was their difficulty in learning, but here's my tuppence:

- When you're learning, you'r shooting for one good, careful attempt each time you go upside down. DOn't rush it. Wait for the kayak to settle. Open your eyes, and push the paddle right to the surface and flat. Don't rely on crabbing your hand over to get the angle right... LOOK at the paddle.

- Preparing for a roll, you can only prepare so much when you're upright. You'll find you can twist round more easily and reach down (up) to the surface much more easily when you're relaxed and upside down. So take a few moments upside down to twist all the way round, with the blade you're going to use out at almost 90deg and flat on the surface.

All of my tens of failed attempts were....
- blade at a duff angle, not flat
- blade not on the surface

I also wasn't pushing it out far enough, but frankly I think that that had less of an effect.

Good luck. ANd you can learn fine in a river so long as you are happy to open your eyes. Maybe get some goggles. The main advantage of a pool is a consistent depth so that you can get good help from a buddy standing next to you.

[Shaun]

I know the feeling, I was out for 24 years too, got back into it again this year and then did the same thing again - subluxated shoulder - completely knocked my confidence again, determined not to wait 24 years to go again, and I will get sculling and high brace recovering on my left side!

PS learnt to role this year so that was a bonus!

[Lynn-Cubs]

OK, OK. I'll call it a Kayak, last time I got in one they were still called canoes.

I used to teach at an outdoor centre, I can teach rolls but by that point some idiot thought it would be fun to play around - unfortunately he didn't realise that I was upside down in a sunk kayak and stuck by my shoe lace. Euan, I'm from Bearsden too, 24st Bearsden rings a bell, but I was a Guide and didn't join the SA until I went up to Lochgoilhead and discovered the Scouts would let me do stuff (too many GG regulations even 20 years ago).

Anyway, I'll get nose clips and goggles and find a pool soon. It was nice to get out with the scouts, they even have my favourite kayak - old fibreglass Snipes which are perfect for teaching and rescuing in. I'm a little stiff and sore this morning, but legs and shoulders not arms so I've not lost the knack.

The knack for rolling is not to try and do it quickly, pretend you're paddling through custard and keep the strokes slow and strong. Now I just need to find the nerve.

And Greg, just call it a boat, that will upset everyone

[Neil Williams]

Originally Posted by Lynn-Cubs

I used to teach at an outdoor centre, I can teach rolls but by that point some idiot thought it would be fun to play around - unfortunately he didn't realise that I was upside down in a sunk kayak and stuck by my shoe lace.

Nasty. I got stuck upside down myself when I was a Venture - it was only for a short period (a few seconds until the activity leader got to me and turned me back the right way up), and it was caused by a combination of me being in a kayak with a very small cockpit (we borrowed it because we didn't have enough large spraydecks for ours) and my having panicked a bit and tried to push out of the kayak backwards rather than rolling out forwards (this works on kayaks with large cockpits but not small ones). But it gave me a massive scare and I was paranoid about capsizing for ages.

Your experience sounds rather worse so I can see exactly where you are coming from...

Neil

[Lynn-Cubs]

It's a common thing once teenagers are close to adult size, children fall out without even getting their hair wet, then suddenly they don't and no-one has taught them that they need to get themselves out.

I was demonstrating a swimmer to Kayak rescue, the idiot decided to leave me and of course I waited (Bang, bang on the kayak) ... and waited (Bang, bang on the kayak) ... and then got stuck. (BANG, BANG)

[Neil Williams]

Originally Posted by Lynn-Cubs

It's a common thing once teenagers are close to adult size, children fall out without even getting their hair wet, then suddenly they don't and no-one has taught them that they need to get themselves out.

I'd been taught - I'd just continued doing it the "old way" - partly because I am not very bendy. So no blame on anyone other than myself for not paying attention

I'm not a small person, though, so I don't remember back to when I'd just fall out... I am a very tight fit in a kayak these days, though I do at least now know how to get out properly...

I was demonstrating a swimmer to Kayak rescue, the idiot decided to leave me and of course I waited (Bang, bang on the kayak) ... and waited (Bang, bang on the kayak) ... and then got stuck. (BANG, BANG)

Erk! (I can feel adrenaline building just thinking about it...)

Neil

[shiftypete]

Originally Posted by gregharewood

Yeah sometime in the last 20 years since I was last canoeing in a kayak, people have started preferring American usage round here.

I was taught in no uncertain terms that there were two types of canoe - open/canadian, and kayak. Not only was canoe a the generic term, but the word kayak was not to be conjugated as it was ugly. So you went canoeing in a kayak. You didn't go kayaking. I stick with this cos I like being old :-)

So, of course she means a kayak. And what she said was perfectly correct, you impertinent young whippersnapper

Don't worry Greg, 'kayaks' are still called canoes in our Group and we still go canoeing in them.

[gregharewood]

Originally Posted by shiftypete

Don't worry Greg, 'kayaks' are still called canoes in our Group and we still go canoeing in them.

Yay \o/

So I'm not necessarily old then? Cos I always seem to come back from canoeing a bit bashed around and knackered these days. Weds just gone, I kinda of sprained an index finger and almost pulled my shoulder out!

I'm 39. I need to relax a little now I have some more skill I think, if I'm going to put another couple of decades into this :-)

[Bushfella]

- Preparing for a roll, you can only prepare so much when you're upright. You'll find you can twist round more easily and reach down (up) to the surface much more easily when you're relaxed and upside down. So take a few moments upside down to twist all the way round, with the blade you're going to use out at almost 90deg and flat on the surface.

All of my tens of failed attempts were....
- blade at a duff angle, not flat
- blade not on the surface

I also wasn't pushing it out far enough, but frankly I think that that had less of an effect.

Recent issue of CODE (BCU Coaching newsletter) recalled that USAAF research after WW2 showed that they lost more planes and pilots in compat due to disorentation when upside down than to actual enemy action.

No matter what you do the right way up, when you are inverted it becomes something else.

Of everyone that I have taught to roll, they have all worked out their own way of doing it. Every one a little different. Some of us use brute force, some just sweep and flick. It is the single most difficult skill to teach on flat water.