100 Years of Girl Guides

[Dr.Stu..]

Although the Guides are streets ahead of the Scouts in their attention to 'Adolescent Mental Health' Conditions.

Joint Report

[The Guide Association & The Mental Health Foundation]

The Scout Association are ahead in their focus on 'Adolescent Sexual Health'.

Dr.Stu..

[Moira2511]

I was a guide in the late 70s early 80s. We did camp, but that was about the only adventurous thing we did. My dad was skipper, of our local Scout Group and area commissioner of Clydesdale Scouting at that time and I used to moan to him regularly that it wasn't "fair" that my brothers got to do exciting things and I didn't. It was my dad who supported me to work on my Queen's Guide, encouraging and helping me to achieve. I eventually got to join Scouts when I was 18 and went to be an ABSL for him when Beavers first started. Where I now live our local Guide group is meeting the needs of the girls in the area who want to Guide.

[trevscout]

Both of my daughters joined Brownies / Guides but didn't enjoy it. When they got the opportunity to join Scouts, there was no stopping them. They will tell you that it was Scouting that empowered them - gave them the chance to do loads of things and show a whole range of skills and, for one of them, to lead a Jamboree unit in 2007!

[jelly]

I am sure that most people on this forum could tell a story about a beaver/cub/scout/brownie/guide unit was not very good.

What it does not mean is that the movement as a whole is not good.

Some of the publications that come from the Guide organisation are fantastic and frankly put some of the things coming from TSA to shame.

Some people seem to always focus on the negative, rather than on all the good things that both organisations do and have done for millions of people.

[Caitsmum04]

I was a Venture Scout - never wanted to be a Brownie or a Guide, they were really girly in my area and appeared to just do knitting/sewing etc, which I could do plenty of at home (Dad was a Tailor, Mum and Gma seamstresses!)
I had an absolute whale of a time in Ventures - but then I'd grown up in the youth service (Dad ran the village YC....... because that paid and the Troop didn't, it was our 2nd income out of necessity) and a Brass Band..... and had a very wimpy younger brother, so boys were nothing new to me.

When I was first married I ran a Boys only troop (few were mixed back then) and a Guide Unit. There were a few girls who would have liked Scouts better, and vice versa. I left shortly before the troop went mixed - was helped out the door by an over zealous "acting GSL" who decided my request for a sabatical meant I was no longer Leader material.
The Troop went mixed and folded in about a year. VERY annoying as I'd re-started it about 8 yrs previously after it had been closed for about 5! (And we'd won most of the District competitions in that time!)
The boys that were there didn't WANT the girls in and the girls that came in wanted to take over - become PLs etc (one was the GSLs daughter, enough said really!) -I don't know if I'd have been able to keep it going had I been there, but I do know I wouldn't have tolerated the girls bossy attitude!

My Guide unit on the other hand continues to fluctuate between 8 and 15 girls, and also continues to fluctuate between being adventurous and stopping home! The current bunch have taken 18months to get to camp, and that includes my eldest daughter who spent her first 5 yrs in Scouts (because she had to tag along with me!) and could light a fire, cook sausages and pitch a tent on her own by the age of 7!

There will always be some who think both Associations have got it wrong, for the moment I think it's about right. Time will tell! Mixing them may well ease some of the leadership issues (but may well create others in areas where leaders disagree with mixing!)

It WAS a good prog on telly though!
AM

[HilaryP]

Well said Caitsmum! The poster whose Guides didn't camp because it "wasn't feminine" was obviously in a rubbish unit. They do exist unfortunately. She must have known that most Guides do camp and have done since before the First World War - in ankle length skirts! Scouting and Guiding have more in common than not and we can both learn from each other.
At Brownie and Guide age most girls prefer to be away from the boys, and are quite vocal in saying so. I personally believe most boys that age feel the same. In 11 years running my current unit of 36 Guides I have had maybe three girls who would have preferred Scouts and a couple who have belonged to and enjoyed both. By 14 many girls will prefer mixed Explorer Scouts to all-girls Senior Section but interestingly most of them seem to want to stay in Guiding as well, as Young Leaders. What Guide Leaders shouldn't do is treat girls who go to Explorer Scouts as traitors or outcasts because that way we will lose them forever.

[banderlog]

I have no problems with girls in Scouting we have discussed this within our group and for some reason its the women leaders who are against the Girls.
We have a good mix of boy/girls in our Beaver Scout and Scout section
but do have a problem with our Cub Scout section most Girls just dont say in after beavers.
The Cub Scout meetings are very rough and tumble maybe this puts off the Girls.
In saying that the Scout section is by no means softy softy and both girls and boys fit in well.
The leaders are as follows
Beavers all women none over 5 years service
Cub scouts Women all long service 20 years+ one is an ex guider plus new leader male.
Scouts all male leaders from 25 years service to very new to scouting.

[RedCoat]

Well said. There are, of course, good and bad units in all associations.

I went to Scouts and my sister went to Guides. I eventually became a Scouter, and she became a Guider. I also think that there is now a lack of provision for boys. I know of Guide units that are more active than several Scout ones, and some where an entire meeting can be spent sitting reading.

I also feel that boys are repeatedly getting the short straw these days. In schools the curriculum is aligned more for girls than boys. Leaders on here frequently point out that often girls make better scouts than boys. Where, then, are these boys supposed to be able to shine, take the lead, develop skills and build self-confidence?

I think that this will probably end up becoming an issue that we all have to look at before too long.

[notgonehome]

Originally Posted by RedCoat

Well said. There are, of course, good and bad units in all associations.

I went to Scouts and my sister went to Guides. I eventually became a Scouter, and she became a Guider. I also think that there is now a lack of provision for boys. I know of Guide units that are more active than several Scout ones, and some where an entire meeting can be spent sitting reading.

I also feel that boys are repeatedly getting the short straw these days. In schools the curriculum is aligned more for girls than boys. Leaders on here frequently point out that often girls make better scouts than boys. Where, then, are these boys supposed to be able to shine, take the lead, develop skills and build self-confidence?

I think that this will probably end up becoming an issue that we all have to look at before too long.

Re:
I think that this will probably end up becoming an issue that we all have to look at before too long
At section level I am sure its being looked at its above this it is not.
Very strange if someone comes up with an idea to encourage Girls its a great thing but if it was to encourage Boys sexist

[BoroGrecian]

Originally Posted by RedCoat

Well said. There are, of course, good and bad units in all associations.

I went to Scouts and my sister went to Guides. I eventually became a Scouter, and she became a Guider. I also think that there is now a lack of provision for boys. I know of Guide units that are more active than several Scout ones, and some where an entire meeting can be spent sitting reading.

I also feel that boys are repeatedly getting the short straw these days. In schools the curriculum is aligned more for girls than boys. Leaders on here frequently point out that often girls make better scouts than boys. Where, then, are these boys supposed to be able to shine, take the lead, develop skills and build self-confidence?

I think that this will probably end up becoming an issue that we all have to look at before too long.

I don't think the boys are always getting the short straw, not wishing to get into a political arguement, society as a whole is more male centric. For a female to succeed in a career they have to make a choice early on, have a career and don't have kids in order to stay in in line with the men and to be taken seriously and then be in danger of being accused of selling out their feminity by other women. Or they can choose to be mothers and job around and then be considered by other women as being a sell out to the sexism of men. Many women cannot win in society.

I actually think that girls in scouts can be a great leveller to the boys, they accept girls as being just as good as them, they compete on an even playing field and girls are given the chance to explore every aspect of their character.

My sea cadet unit is just starting to let girls join it's Marine Cadet section. the female know girls cannot go into the Royal Marines (unless it's the band) and perhaps that's why the girls in the Marine Cadets as a whole are doing well, no burden of expectation in the future. The boys accept them and in fact see them as great competition, they are starting to pick up their game and improving themselve above and beyond what many thought they could do.

I do happen to think there are boys out there who would make great guides, it's the right temprement for some. Will it happen. I doubt it, which is a great shame.

[RedCoat]

Originally Posted by BoroGrecian

I don't think the boys are always getting the short straw, not wishing to get into a political arguement, society as a whole is more male centric. For a female to succeed in a career they have to make a choice early on, have a career and don't have kids in order to stay in in line with the men and to be taken seriously and then be in danger of being accused of selling out their feminity by other women. Or they can choose to be mothers and job around and then be considered by other women as being a sell out to the sexism of men. Many women cannot win in society.

This is a lot wider than the context of my comment, and I pretty much agree with what you say, but at the same time see how hard it would be for a man to take time out to raise his kids and not get accused of being a slacker, not being a "real man" or losing out in terms of career progression. Parenthood is something that takes planning and does not easily mix with work regardless of gender.

We have some fantastic girls in our group, and it works well for us, but that does not change the fact that for some girls Guiding is a better option, while for boys who would gain from a similar single sex environment there is almost no provision.

[BoroGrecian]

Originally Posted by RedCoat

This is a lot wider than the context of my comment, and I pretty much agree with what you say, but at the same time see how hard it would be for a man to take time out to raise his kids and not get accused of being a slacker, not being a "real man" or losing out in terms of career progression. Parenthood is something that takes planning and does not easily mix with work regardless of gender.

We have some fantastic girls in our group, and it works well for us, but that does not change the fact that for some girls Guiding is a better option, while for boys who would gain from a similar single sex environment there is almost no provision.

I do agree that any man who decides they want to take time out to raise their children is often seen as being a 'slacker' or 'not a real man' by others. I would always say they are often the real men for taking responsiblity and can often see their wives or partners are the ones who are earning the real wage in the household. It takes someone brave to kick against the norm. But most of the time, men will not be 'penalised' when they return to the work place.

While I agree there are boys who would gain from a single sex environment there are also boys out there who would gain from being in a guiding environment. It doesn't make any boy gay for being in a guiding environment but sometimes what is lacking in a boys life is a caring mother figure as well as the chance to learn skills which make them more independent in life just as the scouts do.

[HilaryP]

The original question wasn't about adults; it was about children of Cub and Scout age. As the mother of two boys (now nearly grown up) I can tell you that primary schools in this country are mostly geared to the ways girls behave and learn. Boys are told to sit still and present their work more neatly (i.e. behave more like girls) and it wouldn't surprise me if this also happens in a Scouting context (mine were in all-boy units until Explorers). Scouting used to be somewhere boys could be boys without being criticised. I'm sure it still is in good groups.

[binky-beaver]

Originally Posted by HilaryP

The original question wasn't about adults; it was about children of Cub and Scout age. As the mother of two boys (now nearly grown up) I can tell you that primary schools in this country are mostly geared to the ways girls behave and learn. Boys are told to sit still and present their work more neatly (i.e. behave more like girls) and it wouldn't surprise me if this also happens in a Scouting context (mine were in all-boy units until Explorers). Scouting used to be somewhere boys could be boys without being criticised. I'm sure it still is in good groups.

I would disagree with that.

there is much more emphasis on learning through doing things in schools these days. It very much depends on the teacher. Having worked with some very good (and also some simply shocking) teachers I have seen first hand how much better children learn with different teaching styles.

Not all girls respond to sitting quietly. I didnt and while my own daughter apears to, where she is shown a practical task and then talked through it while she tries, she gets it much faster. You would be suprised at the number of girls who cant sit or do neat work while many boys can.

I would never critisise anyone for thier gender and activly chalenge the scouts when they call a male scout a "girl" because they have squeeled in shock during a game. In my eyes they are all scouts and capable of achieving their best nomatter what thier learning style.

There are male only activity groups out there. One locally was happy to have me as a leader but not to accept my daughter when she reached the right age. My son would have been accepted with open arms even though he would have hated it. They lost out.

Binky

[Lynn-Cubs]

Originally Posted by HilaryP

The original question wasn't about adults; it was about children of Cub and Scout age. As the mother of two boys (now nearly grown up) I can tell you that primary schools in this country are mostly geared to the ways girls behave and learn. Boys are told to sit still and present their work more neatly (i.e. behave more like girls) and it wouldn't surprise me if this also happens in a Scouting context (mine were in all-boy units until Explorers). Scouting used to be somewhere boys could be boys without being criticised. I'm sure it still is in good groups.

I'm so glad you said that. I've only recently taken over CSL and I'm aiming to keep away from the school requirements to sit quietly - sometimes that makes my lot look like a complete rabble, but I'd prefer they all chatted and shared while doing crafts and any talk sessions involved their own interaction rather than silently listening to one of the leaders. As long as they 'settle' when we ask.

Doesn't always work, but I'll keep plugging on.